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Impact Makers: The Stories of Social Founders
In deze podcast gaan we in gesprek met 'social founders'; ondernemers met een missie om de wereld eerlijker, duurzamer of op een andere manier beter te maken. We bespreken hoe hun missie is ontstaan en waarom dat zo belangrijk is en hoe hun reis als ondernemer is gelopen. Hoe werden ze succesvol? Waar liepen ze tegenaan? En welke ontdekkingen hebben ze in hun ondernemersreis gedaan?
Impact Makers: The Stories of Social Founders
Aflevering 20: Marnix Geus - The Present
Ondernemerschap is lang synoniem geweest voor het jagen op omzet en groei, maar wat gebeurt er als deze wordt ingezet om urgente maatschappelijke problemen aan te pakken? In deze aflevering vertelt Marnix Geus van The Present over zijn reis van eigenaar van een groot PR-bureau naar aanjager van een community die ondernemerschap inzet om onze wereld een stukje beter te maken.
Meer weten over The Present? Check https://www.thepresentmovement.org/
Hey, good that you're listening to a new episode of Impact Makers the Stories of Social Founders, A podcast in which Peter Bronckhorst talks to entrepreneurs. What is their mission and how did it come about? Did they succeed in making the impact they had in mind and how did they get that for each other?
Speaker 2:Welcome to a new episode of Impact Makers, the Stories of Social Founders, en vandaag hebben we te gast Mannix Geus van the Present. Welkom, dankjewel, en laten we maar meteen van start gaan. Kan jij in één zin vertellen, mannix, wat jouw missie is?
Speaker 3:Ja, ben ik even blij dat ik in de auto al even een podcast had geluisterd, dat jij die vraag stelt Op mijn vraag stelt. Nou, ja, op mijn LinkedIn staat Connecting People to Serve Humanity in goed Nederlands. Ja, internationaal platform En dat heb ik op een gegeven moment hier toegevoegd, omdat dat is eigenlijk wat ik altijd deed, ook hier, vooral in mijn commerciële carrière, maar nu ook vanuit the Present wat een stichting is. Het gaat over het verbinden van mensen altijd to serve humanity, en dat not just about the social aspect, because I think also, if we take good care of nature, then we ultimately serve the human being too. Look that nature eventually survives. Then we are, I think, agree. But well, the human being, he recovers in a certain way, but whether the human being is still there is the question. But I think for the present in general, it is much more about inspiring and activating entrepreneurs to deliver social contributions, and I think that entrepreneurs are also extremely suitable to make a difference in that.
Speaker 2:Well, I can only agree with that. There are a lot of one-sensities with each other. Yes, a lot of one-sensities. What you're not getting at, of course, is that, the moment you're going to hide your mission in one sentence, that there may be some clarification needed. Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:Then you can also go deeper.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we're going to do that absolutely, but maybe you can, before we start there, explain a little more about what you do practically with the Present.
Speaker 3:Yes, well, actually, we bring entrepreneurs together. The heart of the Present is that's called the Present 100. That's a group of entrepreneurs who all actually carry our budget with them. It's also so a group of entrepreneurs who all actually carry our budget with them. There will be a new form of entrepreneurship in which they say, yes, they just pay a kind of annual fee from 2,500 euros, consciously from there are others who want to contribute more, who make our work possible, and it is also an invitation to really contribute from your expertise and your network and your knowledge and experience. And we do that towards existing projects, so social and sustainable projects and programs that are already there, to further support them and expertise, but also develop our own programs. So that means that people can rise up from that group and say, well, I have a certain ideal and I want to show this to the light and who in this group wants to help me with that? And that we from the core team of the Present also facilitate that and connect there again. So bring members of the Present 100 together, because we think they have relevant experience at this level and they can help to speed this up.
Speaker 3:Can you give some examples? Certainly, yes, so there is an entrepreneur who wants to start a talent academy. That was an ideal of him. He has a bicultural background, so born here, no parents and people with a bicultural background who are going to study there. You see a high dropout percentage. So that has to do with their parents not having studied and asking themselves if that makes sense and if they can work better. Mediates are not always sufficiently available so that you as a student really have to finance everything yourself, not only study, but also your room and everything that comes with it. So you're very busy. Unfortunately, discrimination also comes with it and that means that, relatively speaking, many more students from this group within the first few years say you know what? Just look it up, I'm going to do something different, and that's a waste of time. So he wants to set up an academy With role models, with self-bicultural backgrounds that can help students With network life skills. That's an example. His entrepreneur is busy With tiny forest plants. Actually, just bring green, especially in urban areas, in areas where there is very little green. Children at school, maybe the parents don't even have the opportunity aanbrengen.
Speaker 3:Met name ook in stedelijke gebieden, in wijken, waar heel weinig groen is. Kinderen op school zitten van de ouders misschien niet eens de gelegenheid zijn, om in het weekend even lekker naar het bos te gaan, want het treinkaartje kost veel geld, want geen auto, dus de hele contact met natuur zijn kwijtgeraakt. Dus de borrelt uit die groep van alles op Dit, wat ik draag, trouwens, big Hug. Ik heb een sweater aan, op de ene mouw staat Big en de andere Hug. We staan ook met camera's hier, dus we kunnen het misschien laten zien.
Speaker 3:Maar dit is ook ontwikkeld door twee ondernemers uit de groep, Die zeiden van we willen eigenlijk gewoon bestaande sweaters gaan upcyclen En deze tekst erop doen als een soort vanuit de gedachte van the idea that everyone can use a HUC. So in the area of mental reliability and there are more and more people who come into the know we are going to develop those sweaters, and we also launched a big HUC award last year and it will come back every year with prices and money that is brought up from that group and we then extend that. So these kinds of things come from the group. So it's all about doing it together.
Speaker 2:And what kind of entrepreneurs are there in such a group?
Speaker 3:Yes, quite diverse. Well, actually, very diverse is compared to the standard entrepreneur clubs, which are often very masculine and where it is very much about how much turnover you make and how much profit you make. So we have a very nice mix of men and women here. Cultural origins in age well mixed. Also in portmonee, quite mixed.
Speaker 3:So you see what people who contribute that year Quite with their asses together is, but who still want to believe in it. It opens up a nice new network for them, and for others it is maybe pocket money Because they have already made a huge exit. A new network for them, and for others it's maybe pocket money Because they have already made a huge exit a few times. So that's all in between. So also in different phases of life as an entrepreneur, and that's very nice Because we have to bring that together. So you also have the real social entrepreneur in the group, the role models that run ahead in ideals but maybe still have to struggle a lot in terms of finance, and, on the other hand, entrepreneurs who have earned a lot of money with other things and now they have come to the point where they think, hey, I want to give something back to society, but they are not necessarily the impact.
Speaker 3:Entrepreneurs yes, certainly, but not all of them.
Speaker 2:Not exclusively. Not exclusively.
Speaker 3:No, we actually select very much on Niet allemaal, niet uitsluitend, niet uitsluitend, nee, nee, wij selecteren eigenlijk heel erg op Zijn mensen echt bereid, om een bijdrage te leveren. Vanuit hun ondernemerschap Geloven ze ook, zien ze ook hun eigen privilege daarin, wat het niet heel erg ego gedreven is van kijk mij, wat ik allemaal heb bereikt, en ik heb dat allemaal zelf gedaan, en daarom kan ik nu heel veel sportauto's gaan kopen en buitenhuizen. Dus dat is. Ik weet niet, of je het boek Second Mountain kent, maar ja, dat is de eerste berg beklimmen, dat gaat over. Kijk mij nou, wat ik allemaal kan. En dat is niet allemaal meteen verkeerd of zo. We willen allemaal ontdekken, wat je kunt. Maar vervolgens, en dat is die Second Mountain, is het van mountain how can I make this much more useful to the world around me and the problems I am aware of?
Speaker 2:That's funny indeed, a nice way to look at it. I think, that's something I recognize myself, and I think it's something a lot of people experience, not just as an entrepreneur, but that you're first of all busy with what you can do yourself and that at some point there comes a point where you think wait a minute, this is all nice, but what does that mean at the end of the story? Yes, exactly.
Speaker 3:I'm going to call it a midlife crisis, but fortunately there are also a lot of people, and more and more, who are very aware of that much earlier in their lives.
Speaker 3:I also work a lot with 20-year-olds, who are much more aware than I was at the time. But it's true, what you say. It's of course discovering your talent and what you can do and achieve, kunst doen en bereiken. Als daar dan aantal dingen in lukken, dan komt, als het goed is, ook steeds meer bewustzijn van gol. Maar dat heb ik eigenlijk ook wel, heb ik veel mazzel gehad en heel veel te danken gehad en allemaal anderen. En nou, wat zou ik hier, hoe zou ik dit nu kunnen inzetten voor een betere wereld?
Speaker 2:als je nu kijkt, en je hebt nu dus een soort ondernemersclub eigenlijk. You have now actually created a kind of entrepreneur club with all entrepreneurs who would like to contribute something more to the world than a filled bank account. You just said before that you have also been commercially active as an entrepreneur. How does something like this arise? How do you get from there to where you are now?
Speaker 3:Well, it doesn't determine, in the right line and with a planned plan. As is often suggested.
Speaker 3:That is mostly total nonsense. No, I'm still with the present. 100 now is actually a very recent development. We've only been doing that for a year and a half or so To make it much more central within the present. But yes, back to what I did before. So I come from the creative industry. I set up a number of PR offices One that grew a lot Business partner, two partners bought in at the time and we grew in 10 years to 50 people at a people, which is quite a lot for a PR agency. It wasn't our intention. We wanted to be the best and the best PR agency. We became one of the biggest.
Speaker 2:People come to you when you're the best.
Speaker 3:Yes, it becomes a magnet. So that's right, people wanted a great place to work. We were focused on, I think, a very nice culture to put down, and at the same time, there was still a lot of everything for me. And look, I had a clear dream as a 20-year-old I wanted to do business and I wanted to write, and I also wanted to mean something for the world from the core of what I do. And that was then, yes, then already, and that wasn't all at the same, doe iets voor de wereld betekenen.
Speaker 3:Toen al Ja, toen al, en dat kon niet allemaal tegelijkertijd, maar dat was er wel al, en ik heb mijn eigen droom al heel serieus genomen. Dus dat ondernemen is daar ben ik toen mee gestart. Dat was toen net voor mijn dertigste Eigenlijk de studietijd al, want er was nog wat spielerij. Maar dit toen met dit PR-bureau was voor, and in the end I wrote my first book after 10 years and in the end in retrospect it turned out to be a bit strict on my entrepreneur's journey in the PR world. I didn't know that back then, but I did notice that that third dream about wanting to mean something for the world became clearer, it became more urgent and I was also annoyed in that world.
Speaker 3:Have you always seen that in that way, when I have three dreams. Yes, I had that as a 20-year-old, so it's very clear. And then I spoke to people with gray hair and they all wanted it at the same time and they said you know, you can really do it in eight years or in 12 years. You can do a lot of different things in your life. Why don't you just start doing business first and then you'll see what will come out of there? Well, that was actually a very good tip and what I said, those things that I I think I just feel very clearly of what I want to do in this life. I take that very seriously. I don't rule that out. If I feel that it becomes clearer, then I'm going to do something with it, and that's also a bit entrepreneurial. I think you can talk about it all day long, but you just see the presence with such a group.
Speaker 2:They want to do something, they want to get together, but I think that's one of the things we were just talking about. I also see that entrepreneurship is a very important key in solving a lot of problems that we now have in society. I totally agree, because that's for a very large part because there is a lot of crime and because there is a lot of action in it that you don't have to expect from the government and the consumers as a meute, so to speak, also not.
Speaker 3:Well, the latter I'm not entirely with you, but I do agree with you that such an entrepreneur, who is of course also just a citizen and a consumer, is, I think I see that, differently from individual consumers, from people as an individual crime, and be a lot of power and speed in it, only from the whole of the consumers?
Speaker 2:I don't see that.
Speaker 3:Yes, but you see bigger and bigger movements arising. Look at Extinction, rebellion, what they get for each other. So, yes, especially when people unite, of course, only, I think, with entrepreneurs. You need less mass, because an entrepreneur, who can, he has a lot of mass. Yes, he has so much. They are influential people, above average, influential, and not only with means, but also from the network and what you say, the force of action, leadership. I think it's very nice that you, with entrepreneurs also, yes, very quickly clear Do you participate? You get a yes or no? And if you talk to corporates, then you are often months away and then very often it still becomes no, and then it was an enormous waste of time. So there is that systemic problem, of course, much bigger. Yes, there is, and I have, and that was an enormous waste of time. So there, the systemic problem is much bigger.
Speaker 2:It is, of course yes, there is, and I have also thought about it what makes entrepreneurs MKBers, that it works so differently than with corporates. But that is actually not that complicated, because the point is that if you look at who has it for what the goal of the company is, then there is a MKB company or entrepreneur that is just one person or family and they can say everything goes according to my calculation or we're going to do something else. If you look at a corporate, then there is actually a kind of they have generally anonymous shareholders. There is a kind of division between the management of the company and the one who eventually takes the money. Yes, who has the profit.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that makes, say, the one who manages the company. He just has the task to provide as much money as possible for the owners, but the owners themselves don't see, or don't have to delve into, what has to happen for that. No, that's right. So that's disconnected, and that's actually, in my opinion, where it goes wrong.
Speaker 3:You could even say it's dehumanized Exactly In the conversation with Ruben.
Speaker 2:We also talked about the fact, that when you really see the other and talk to someone and understand someone's context, then you will automatically put pressure on whether things are going well with the other, and then you will weigh that in your decisions. The moment you no longer see the other, then it is also not logical to take the interests of the other with you in your decision. That does not go by itself in any case, and the less you see the other, the easier it becomes to not do it. De belangen van die ander mee te nemen in je beslissing. Dat gaat niet vanzelf in ieder geval. En hoe minder je de ander ziet, hoe makkelijker het wordt, om het niet te doen. En dat is eigenlijk, wat er natuurlijk bij corporates gebeurt. Degene, die uiteindelijk echt het voor het zeggen heeft, de aandeelhouder, die heeft geen verbinding meer met wat er beneden. Nee, wat op de werkvloer gebeurt Hoe er?
Speaker 3:No, because the workflow happens, how people are dealt with, how the world is dealt with.
Speaker 3:No, that's right. Actually, my first book was about that. It's called People's Trade Literally dare to put people in trade. And in that I also noticed in those days we still had a PR office. And if you then came to look for, well, we worked for a lot of big multinationals and I was surprised by that Along the A10 you had that I don't want to name names the ING office. You know that shoe. Well, there was the ING in the past and you went there to visit and then you had a whole row of BMW 7-series in front of the door and then you came in and it was all marble, a very long bally with all the ladies who received you there, and then you got your badge and then you went up a yes. And then I asked him does the council of administration drink this too? No, no, no. Above they had fresh ground beans and coffee. So that exists anyway and that it still happens.
Speaker 2:Yes, probably around the same time that was my student time I was in a call center at ING. Oh, yes, so I know the benches with tap water. But yes, that is indeed, we have linked that in a crazy way with each other. How that works.
Speaker 3:And that's fine if you want to save costs but then you have it all and don't do it in plastic bags anymore but there will be something in the meantime, I hope. I dare not say.
Speaker 2:Where were we? Well, not at ING. Where were we Not at ING? The thing is also that, on the one hand, I think that there is responsibility for everyone. On the other hand, you can take it individually. People also, but to a certain extent, because they also function in a system, no of course it's not that there are bad people.
Speaker 2:That is the the the scary thing about it. The dangerous thing about it, is that it is also very easy to not take responsibility. Of course, what you often see with large companies that if they take a responsibility, then no one is at home.
Speaker 3:No, then they are pointed out to each other and everyone gets a little bit of that.
Speaker 2:Yes, apart from things from the outside, you see that within such a company already, when something is not going well, then all departments point to each other and at the end of the day everyone is in the Elthorne house.
Speaker 3:And people are not happy about it. I believe that there are also people working with ideals and who want to get something out of each other, and of course they also walk very hard with their heads against the wall. Too little movement arises. Ideale en, die iets van elkaar willen krijgen, want die lopen natuurlijk ook heel hard met hun hoofd tegen de muur aan. Te weinig beweging ontstaat.
Speaker 2:Nee, ja, maar ik moet zeggen, ik vind dat heel knap. Als je dat volhoudt, ja, als je daar nee, maar als je daar, als je dat kan, als je.
Speaker 3:Ja, ik vind het ook wel knap, als je hier uitstapt.
Speaker 2:Vind ik ook inderdaad, I think so too, indeed, but both for their own reasons, I think.
Speaker 3:Rutger Bregman now has his upcoming book about moral ambition. His big story here is, of course, the most played good at this moment in the world is talent. So why are people on the South Pole at companies very intelligent people there who are, of course, paid very well for it, but what are they doing exactly? What do those companies really contribute to in the world?
Speaker 2:Yes, and that we also Look. One of the things we are very good at, not only in the West, but also in the Netherlands, is a system in which we are very busy with keeping and controlling things and not doing so much with things, but we absolutely lost a lot there.
Speaker 3:That's not the ideal world.
Speaker 2:No, that's not the ideal world. No, that's not the ideal world. It doesn't fit so well in your ideal book.
Speaker 3:It looks very different.
Speaker 2:Yes, Maar you were talking about your journey from entrepreneurship to the present.
Speaker 3:Yes, how that moment then arises that you start. Dan ontstaat uiteindelijk, dat je zoiets begint als wat nu de present movement heet. Ja, dus, dat was na die tien jaar groei in dat PR-bureau Toen. Eigenlijk wilde ik er toen al uit. Ik zat al niet meer zo lekker erin, en toen ging het in één keer niet goed. Dus toen draaide ik een kwart miljoen verlies. Toen moesten tien mensen uit. Dat is natuurlijk heel he ten people out. It's very intense. It's not the moment where you say, well, you know, I'm going to do something else. So there's also just, well, the sense of responsibility is a bit too great for it. So I also stayed to help Zwarte Cijfers to run again. But then it was really the end of the world. Yes, and that was financially not the most attractive with such a bad year behind my back. So my financial advisor said, yes, stay for two more years to go back to the old level. But I really couldn't do that anymore.
Speaker 3:And what was playing out then was the refugee crisis, and so of course a lot of people came, especially because of the war in Syria. So in 1516, through those Greek islands that are on the Turkish coast Lesbos, samos, kos In enormous numbers at the same time in those boats and I found that very intense, and I had a few people with direct environment who said I'm not going to watch the news any longer, I'm just going to go there, I'm going to see what I can do. That inspired me very much, but then we were still in the middle of the shit with our company. A whole other order, enlarged, of course, but well, there was also something to do. But that has me. There were some seeds planted then. So the moment I left the company at the end of 2016, I left my own child behind, so to speak. So I sold the shares and there are the shareholders. Then I also went to Lesbos in 2017.
Speaker 3:Also to see what I can do from the network that I have with entrepreneurs. What could I contribute and if I go there, what does that do to me and what can I learn? I saw that I could not do volunteer work for months, but I wanted to understand it and then see what I can do from the Netherlands and what did it do to you? A lot. I was hit a lot. I went to understand it and see what I could do from the Netherlands and what did it do to you A lot. I was hit a lot.
Speaker 3:I went to Cambodia for the first time. Later I went back a few times Really humane what I saw there. And I also traveled a lot. I've been to Africa, I've been to India. I've seen poverty.
Speaker 3:The most intense thing here is that people come from the environment, just like us, how we are here now, just that people come from an entire. Yes, they just come from the environment, just like we are here now. There may also be a nice podcast somewhere to make in Aleppo. And then you have to flee and then those trips are not only terrible, but then you think you have achieved Europe. What is presented is the bag of the civilization.
Speaker 3:And you just come to a camp where thousands of people are there Too few sanitary people, hours in line for food Not to eat, also very bad hygiene. Yes, not to do, really not to do. I was really. I called my wife in the evening from the hotel. I really had tears running down my cheeks. What you don't allow.
Speaker 3:If you walk through that camp, because then you think, yes, who am I to go and cry with you? Those people are. Later you walk through the camp because then you think, yes, who am I? To walk here a little bit, to go to the people who are here so you bite your lip, but it is makes a very deep impression and at the same time, I have also seen a lot of beautiful things, so a lot of beautiful organizations, a lot of beautiful people who were already active there a few years ago and, yes, there first went and just found boats and they thought that we were done with the big ngos. But they were not there at all. You just got the babies in their hands and just went.
Speaker 3:Yes, how you Boatjes opvingen En die dachten dat wij, de groot NGO's, wel klaar stonden, maar die waren daar nog helemaal niet. Hier hebben we gewoon de baby's in hun handen geduwd gekregen En gingen gewoon roeien met de riemen die ze hadden, en dat vond ik heel inspirerend en bewonderenswaardig. En ik dacht ook meteen Wie ben ik dan, om daar nog weer iets naast te gaan zetten? Het is er allemaal, also within the present. There is already a lot, so we don't have to reinvent everything every time. There are already a lot of beautiful initiatives that just need support. So we have to connect those worlds the world of entrepreneurs, the world of Actually also entrepreneurs, but more social and sustainable entrepreneurs, world's Impairers, changers.
Speaker 2:Is that also what brought you? Because you said, on the one hand, you went there with the idea of what does it do to me, but also what can I learn here?
Speaker 3:Yes, there is already a lot, but there is also a lot needed, and I didn't immediately come back that day. Now I have the Holy Grail, now I know exactly what I have to do, but I was already. I was already on, and that happens just when you go looking for the active With any subject. Then also, if you really go on, then you will also be on and then you can also. There is just no way back.
Speaker 3:So then I organized the first meetups and then I gave a podium to a founder of such a small-scale initiative what was active there at Lesbos who came to tell a story about why he was doing this and showed images and then, with one help request to the group, and the group was all entrepreneurs, so the audience consisted of entrepreneurs, and then a kind of crowd consulting arose. People went in, groups, had to think, along with a question mark, of that beautiful initiative, and that actually worked very well, in the sense that it goes further than what you are inspired by. It's always nice to be inspired, but the risk is very high that the next day you just go on with what you were doing. And here happened a lot more. It was Inspiration Plus. People were also activated and immediately from your expertise and experience contribute, and people then also went to someone on stage afterwards. I am touched by your story and here is a business card you still had business cards.
Speaker 1:What is?
Speaker 3:that? No, but we will link and I want to get in touch with you. So people themselves also wanted to give more. So that was also interesting to see, but I didn't know what I was doing. So it took a few times before that.
Speaker 2:The interesting thing is this kind of thing that arises Because what you just described oh wait, yeah, community led growth.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I just learned that word before we started recording.
Speaker 2:Someone tells their mission, people are hooked on it and they want to build with it.
Speaker 3:Because it's not for yourself, because it's bigger than yourself, because they feel that too.
Speaker 2:And in the end because I'm also thinking about it from marketing. What is that actually? What does that bring people? That is simply a piece of meaning. At the moment, we were just talking about the second mountain. That means that is something that we all have in us, that we are looking for. But, okay, what does this life of dat we op zoek zijn naar? Maar oké, wat betekent dit leven van mij? Nou, zeg maar op deze wereld.
Speaker 3:Laat het in godsnaam zin hebben.
Speaker 2:Ja, maar dat op deze manier. Dat bij Community Let Grow het haken mensen aan, omdat ze ook een stukje van die betekenis willen delen, zeg maar Ja, dat is het.
Speaker 3:Ja, dat is, wat ik ook hartverwarmend vond, en nog steeds that's it. That's what I found heartwarming and still find. That's what happens, and it's also nice to see that arise, because actually as a company in the commercial world that happens in a certain sense as well. Only then, of course, there is much more importance. You can pay them and here people go that becomes a side business, that becomes a threshold.
Speaker 2:You see that the focus shifts and it is true what you also stated when the refugee crisis burst, then I was in the middle of those problems with the company and that is also something I have seen that, in addition to the mission when a connection is, it is also important and that's also something I've seen. Besides the mission being there when there is a connection, it is also important that a participant must be in the opportunity To participate the moment. That must be possible. Just as you were talking about For some entrepreneurs that they contribute, that it is a big thing deal, and for some almost nothing. That also has to do with the fact that when it's a big deal, someone has to be very involved in your mission to do it. So there's a kind of relationship between how far someone is in the opportunity, how far it is relevant for someone at a certain moment, and how far someone is someone hooked on that mission.
Speaker 3:By the way, what you just said, we always want to have a percentage of wildcards that you also have entrepreneurs who are 100% hooked on it, and also the role models can be the group that they just have to join. But yes, so such a movement you can't build it yourself, it arises. You just said that and that is also.
Speaker 2:I have also regularly had the question in recent years how can you put your community-led growth in? How can you make your community-led growth? Yes, that is not it. It is something that arises and you can facilitate it.
Speaker 3:You can create a boundary. You can create a boundary.
Speaker 2:You can help people a bit by making certain things easier or by looking at how we can make it more relevant, but community-led growth itself is something that happens and where you have limited influence. And that is also when you are going to facilitate it, then you help people to participate in it in a certain way. If you don't do that but you do have a mission, they are looking for a way.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly, that is nice. So in that respect, the role of founders is often overestimated. I am now invited here for the podcast, and there are, of course, a lot of other people who have contributed a lot to where we are now, because I have been clungling a lot publicly and people said I can't see this anymore. This can be smarter, this can be better.
Speaker 2:Do you express that that is a prerequisite?
Speaker 3:If you have no budget, that is difficult Then you have to do that. I am literally just, and then I came out of an own company where I had everything. If I had an idea, I could put it down like that.
Speaker 2:Then people would do everything with it. Then it happened.
Speaker 3:And now I just went to build your website. Now I had a kind of 1.0 website built and it didn't look good. And then I had someone at my network who said Geusie this, this has to be different.
Speaker 3:I know that, but you know that well, right. So that's how it came about. And the other thing that is such a prerequisite is, I think, that you dare to share what you are doing. No, absolutely so. I call that on the trumpet, not on the chest, and I thought that was quite exciting in the beginning. Because of my PR background, I was afraid that people might look at me like oh, he's going to be a bit.
Speaker 2:Yes, on the one hand you have that and on the other hand, you also have that. I notice that some people find it exciting that someone is going to go with the idea.
Speaker 3:Oh yes, I've never had that.
Speaker 2:Yes, somewhere. I always think it's very strange when it comes to my mission, because you just want everyone to go with it.
Speaker 3:Yes, indeed yes, and that is also the whole idea of the present. This has also become a foundation. We talked about ownership and direction you want to give it. I wanted to get rid of the BV world. Where I came from, that it was automatically from me that everyone is going to look at me and that I could have an interest in it If there is a business model to hang on to.
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